Monday, May 23, 2005

Torture can never be justified

We don't need no standard pain. We don't need no standard minimum rules for the Torture of Prisoners!

I am forwarding the following statement issued by AMCRAN in regards to a paper: "Not Enough (Official) Torture in the World? The Circumstances in which Torture is Morally Justifiable" written by Professor Mirko Bagaric, Head of Deakin Law School & Julie Clarke, Lecturer, Deakin Law School, in which they justify torture.

I have been reading the paper and I find it abhorrent. I am amazed that these individuals are heading a leading university and involved in the preparation/education of law students.

According to Bagaric and Clarke "The pejorative connotation associated with torture should be abolished. A dispassionate analysis of the propriety of torture indicates that it is morally justifiable," and they go on to argue their point as to when torture is "morally permissible."

To them the prohibition of torture is "pragmatically unrealistic," to argue for an individual's "absolute right" is "in fact nonsense." If people found themselves in the position of sanctioning torture or rejecting it they would surely opt, according to the circumstances, for the former.

We don't need no thought control.

It seems that advocates for such immoral act are trying their best to start a discussion on the subject, engendering fear and panic to excuse the barbaric act of torture. The issue is that these are 'sick, psychopathic' arguments, which will not only appeal to vulnerable individuals of our society but also to fascists and psychopaths.

One of the members of the Canterbury-Bankstown Peace group, Mr Mamdouh Habib, was subjected to torture. Mr Habib's ordeal has not ended. He continues to be harassed and psychologically traumatised by the 'authorities' of the Howard Government.

No dark chasms in the classroom.

The CBPG will be organising a forum to bring to the public the plight of Mamdouh, as well as that of David Hicks and Ahmed Aziz Rafiq who continue being hostage of the US administration. [We will keep you informed]

David and Ahmed are being tortured this very minute, like more than 500 others imprisoned at Guantanamo and more than 17,000 imprisoned in various parts of the world by the US torture squad. We need to stop this.

Teacher, leave those kids alone.

Torture is a barbaric act, morally wrong!

Please write to "Professor" Mirko Bagaric & "Lecturer" Julie Clarke of Deakin Law School.

Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone!

For a world without torture (& without academics such a Bagaric & Clarke), Marlene Obeid (Mob.0401 758 871)

All in all it's just another prick under your fingernail.
All in all you're just another prick in the in the Neo-Liberal Party.

Civil rights group says torture can never be justified

SYDNEY, Australia - 17 May 2005 - A Muslim civil rights group is appalled by claims by two Deakin University academics that torture can be justified as an interrogation method.

We don't need no torture education.

The Australian Muslim Civil Rights Advocacy Network (AMCRAN) condemns Professor Mirko Bagaricâs comments to the Age newspaper that some cases would legally justify the torture of an innocent person to death.

"Nothing -- no moral, legal or philosophical argument -- can genuinely justify the use of torture", said Dr Waleed Kadous, co-convenor of AMCRAN. "It is a demarcation between civilization and barbarism that we must never cross."

We don't need no thought control.

"Indeed, the view that a good end might be reached through an evil method mirrors the thinking that lies at the heart of the 'public threats' that torture would supposedly prevent."

"Furthermore, entrusting these kinds of powers to any government can only lead to abuse and misuse", Dr Kadous warned.

No dark chasms in the classroom.

"Historically, governments that have held the power to torture have misused them. Indeed, the use of torture by the Saddam regime has been frequently cited as a principle justification for our presence in Iraq."

The Islamic faith, like all world faiths, joins anyone who has studied the lessons of history, in condemning torture in all its forms.

Teachers, leave those kids alone.

International treaties like the Geneva Convention and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights were not born out of theory, but in the aftermath of the bloodbaths of two massive world wars.

"It is particularly disturbing that a proponent and apologist for torture has been sitting on the Refugee Review Tribunal deciding the fate of people who may themselves be victims of torture," said Dr Kadous.

Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone!

For more information contact:
Sydney: Dr Waleed Kadous Ph: 0403 440 586
Melbourne: Nasya Bahfen Ph: 0422 564 485
Australian Muslim Civil Rights Advocacy Network


All in all you're just another prick under your fingernail. All in all you're just another prick in the Neo-Liberal Party.

United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners. Or Standard guidelines for corrections in Australia.

By Gregory Kable, Marlene Obeid and Pink Floyd posted 23 May 05

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