Friday, December 13, 2002

Transcript: Abu Bakar Bashir

How are you?

A: I'm healthy now, Allah has has cured my illness. God willing.

Are you following the developments in the investigation into the October 12, 2002 Bali bombing and what do you think about them?

Well, what clear is, I strongly suspect that the October 12, 2002 Bali bombing in particular and several other bombings in Indonesia in general are part of a series of America's efforts in fighting Islam.

On the first effort: with the bombing America wants to prove that terror really exists in Indonesia. On the second: America wants to build an opinion that the terrorrists who launch terror in Indonesia are Moslems.

Meaning there are in some Islamic boarding schools (unclear). And then, terror in Makassar was linked to the Committee to Uphold Islamic Sharia (KPSI, ed). So that America wants to build opinion that all terrors took place in Indonesia were carried out by Moslems and in the end America wants to build opinion that terrorists are the Moslems, therefore fighting terrorism means fighting the Moslems.

So actually America wants to fight the Moslems and Islam in Indonesia but using the excuse of terrorism so that it wont be openly (seen as fighting Islam) but under the terror camouflage. This is what I understand about the developments of the investigation into the Bali bombing as well as the other (bombing cases).

I know that you get this question all the time. But, are you involved in Jemaah Islamiah? If so, what is your involvement?

Well, I have never been involved in what is called Jemaah Islamiah invented by America. Actually the term Jemaah Islamiah is purposedly invented by America to nail, so that it is easy to accuse Islam and Moslems as being terrorists.

Since Jemaah Islamiah has been stated as a terrorist organization by the UN which is the Americas tool, Americas ally. So that with the idea of Jemaah Islamiah America could build opinion that terror and terrorists are the Moslems. So I never know of Jemaah Islamiah as an organisation as mentioned by America and its allies.

Do you know the people allegedly involved in the Bali bombing especially Imam Samudra, Mukhlas and Amrozi? If yes, how do you know them?

I never know (them). If they know me, it is pretty normal because I am a preacher. And I never feel like I know them until these people appeared on TV and were published by newspapers.

Do you feel and believe that they (Imam Samudra, Muklas and Amrozi) are responsible for the Bali bombing? If not, who do you think is responsible?

A: (I) absolutely don't believe that they are responsible of the bombing in Bali. I still think and strongly suspect the ones who are responsible and the brain of the bombing in Bali are America and Israel.

The proof is, it is impossible for these kind of people namely Imam Samudra or Amrozi or Mukhlas to carry out the bombing that exploded (in Bali). Even it is impossible for TNI and POLRI to make such bomb that exploded in Bali, but those who made it are particular countries such as America and Israel. Therefore I deeply suspect and strongly think and am even convinced that the brain of the bombing is America and Israel.

Have you ever promoted the use of violence when teaching. If not, do you agree with the use of violence for the religious purposes?

A: In principle I teach Islam in accordance to the sharia contained in the Koran and based on the Prophets words and deeds which is the sunna. Islam commands us to live peacefully with all human beings be they Moslem or infidels.

We are commanded to leave peacefully, to do good things and to be fair. There is a verse saying, "Allah does not forbid you to do good and fair thing to infidels who do not fight you and your religion and who do not expel you from your land, Allah actually loves people who are always fair." So, basicaly Islam commands peace however if Islam is fought, its sharia attacked, Allah instructs us not to be at peace with them and instead we have to defend ourselves, fight them, as Allah says in the following verse, "that Allah forbids you to be friends with people who fight you and your religion and who expel you and people who helped them to expel you. It is clear from these two verses, we can draw conclusion that the Islamic teaching is essentially a call for peace but if they are fought, well, it is an obligation to fight back. That is the teaching I taught which is in accordance with the Koran. I always call the Moslems to do good things even to infidels.

We even have to be fair so long they don't disturb the Islamic sharia and fight Islam. But if they fight Islam, the law forbids us to be nice to them, the law forbids us to be friends with them. If they fight Islam, we have to fight them back, it is in accordance with what the Koran teaches. So it is not my teaching, it is not my brain, it is not my opinion but it is all the teachings of Allah SWT and the teachings of His Prophet Muhammad SAW.

Have you ever visited Australia? If you have, which cities and whom did you visit?

A: I have visited Australia a couple of times and the cities I visited are Melbourne, Sydney and the last one was Perth and I have visited Brisbane briefly. I visited Australia because of a Koran reading invitation by the Moslem community there, they are the mosques, Moslem community in those cities. I stayed in their houses, kept moving and I forget who those people are because it was a one-week visit and (I) came back later so that I forget and I did not stay in one place, one house. My purpose of visiting Australia was to accept invitation to give religious speech either during Friday sermon or to attend Koran reading meetings with Indonesian and Malaysian Moslem community.

A: Do you have relationships or network in Australia?

A: No, I dont have any relationships, so when I went to Australia I was wholly dependent on their invitation; if they invited me, well, I would go because they financed all the trips. And if there was no invitation from them I did not go.

What do you think about Australia especially Prime Minister John Howard and his comments that Australia could attack terrorists on foreign soil?

A: About Australia, in general, I think its fine. Australian people, God willing, have no problem with Islam. However, usually, Australian leaders do influence their people a lot to make enemy of Islam, especially the incumbent Prime Minister. Moreover, the incumbent Prime Minister John Howard is the ally of George W. Bush the worst and most evil president in the world. John Howard is his ally. Because lately he has this crazy idea regarding what you asked me about.

So, if John Howards stance is followed by people of Australia, so you have to know, that there will be war in the world and God willing Australia will be destroyed instantly due to the crazy idea of its Prime Minister.

What do you think the impact will be coming from John Howards comment?

The impact is there will be war between nations in the world and Australia will bear the consequences; God willing, Australia will suffer destruction due to that crazy idea.

As a respected religious leader, how do you see the Future of south-east Asian countries?

A: Well, the future of south-east Asian countries will depend on their acceptance of Islamic sharia. Because the south-east Asian nationas are mainly Moslems. I they want to accept Islamic sharia 100% and make it into their law, their future will be safe, prosperous, respected and becoming big and strong nations. But if reject Islamic sharia or follow the Americas and the Jews, the Southeast Asian countries will be the weakest and the poorest countries.

What is your opinion about the bombing tragedy on October 12, 2002 in Bali? Do you condemn the tragedy?

A: About the tragedy, I only based my opinion on the system explained by sharia, so long as the infidels do not fight Islam, we are prohibited to attack and kill them. However, if inidels do want to attack Islam, fight Islam, so we are instructed to fight them.

About the Bali issue, were they infidels, be they Americans, Australians who were there, fighting Islam or not? In my opinion they were simply ordinary tourists, they were only ordinary tourists. So I think they were not supposed to be killed but they have to be visited and advised, preached so that they would have not committed such sinful thing. This is my opinion.

What is your opinion about the opinion of Australia and other non-Moslem countries about you? What sort of opinion do you wish (people will think about you)?

A: In my opinion, the opinion of Australia and other infidel countries about me is generally following the stance of the United States government's position. What is clear is, the United States government's opinion about me is that I am enemy for them because I am regarded as the man who loves and is most active in upholding Islamic sharia.

That is the opinion of the United States government and the countries who follow it. Among others is Australia government, so they hate me a lot because I am regarded as the most active in upholding Islamic sharia. I am accused of being terrorist without evidence. That is really their style and way of making enemy of somebody. About what opinion I wish to have, I think, is to have an opinion that is fair; I am trully active and want to uphold Islamic sharia. That is my right and obligation as a Moslem. The infidels should actually be fair in looking at it just like I am fair in looking at the infidels.

If I preach to the infidels to convert to Islam and they dont want to, I will respect their stance. So long that they don't disturb Islam, I will not disturb them.

I'm ready to live peacefully with them, help each other in this worldly affairs. If they don't want to convert to Islam that's because they have not received any guidance. So I have to be fair with them and so they have to be fair with me. So if I am active in upholding Islam that is my obligation and rights. They should have respected it. This is what I expect.

Do you want to convey any message to your followers in Australia and all over the world?

I don't have followers in Australia, you should know that I don't have followers in Australia. But I have Muslim brothers in Australia and all over the world.

Especially to Muslim brothers in Australia or those living in other infidel countries like America and Europe, be you active in peacefully spreading Islam as the Koran guides. Allah SWT spoke in the Koran, advising us, in preaching to infidels: "Tell the infidels wisely to come to your God and with good advice and teach them to have discussions in good manner." This is the Koran's guidance, our way to

preach to infidels to convert to Islam. That is with wisdom and by having good manner of discussion with them. So there is no, there should not be the way of violence as long as they don't fight us. This is my message to the Muslim brothers be they living in Australia or those living in infidel countries. Be relentless in preaching, help them, save them, so that they will go back to the Allah way in a wise and good advise.

Do you believe that suicide bombing is a noble thing or jihad?

A: Well, the martyr's bomb is a noble thing, it's a jihad of high value if we are forced to do, for instance in Palestine, there is no other way to defend ourselves or to defend Islam. All ulama agree to martyr's bomb, because we're forced, there is no other way to defend ourselves and to defend Islam. Just like my Muslim brothers in Palestine in facing Israel, they are forced to do such thing because of the unequal of weapons. While Israel gets its weapons supplied by Allah's enemy, the American government, while the Palestinians don't have weapons that have the capacity to fight, so there is no other way but the way of martyr's bomb. It is honorable because in Islam if it is attacked we are obliged to defend ourselves and attack people who attack Islam. In Islam there is no word for hands-up, there is no word for surrender, there are only two things, win or diepe.

What will happen to you in the future, do you think?

A: I don't know what will happen to me in the future because my fate is in the hands of Allah SWT. But I believe that my actions and steps are correct and righted by Allah and Prophet. Should I suffer through slander by the Indonesian government as an order from the terrorist government of America, I have to be patient in going through this. As of the future, about my fate, I have no idea how Allah will do about it. But I'm hopeful that my future will be a good future, blessed by Allah SWT especially when I die; a death blessed by Allah SWT.

If you are indicted as being involved in the bombing in Bali, what do you think the world's reaction would be?

A: I have no idea about the world's reaction because if I am indicted as being involved in Bali bombing, it is clearly an invention. Should that happen, the reaction, my guess, is that the infidel countries especially the terrorist government of America and its allies will be happy. Because they are successful in stopping me forever because the infidel countries in particular the leaders don't want to have me living within the society so that I can preach about upholding Islamic sharia.

So, if later I am indicted as baing involved in the Bali case, my calculation is, the infidel countries such as the American government, British government, Australian government and the Singaporean government and their allies will be happy. But I believe that God will touch the hearts of the Moslems to fight against the injustice.

About this Bali issue, if the government and the police are brave to indict me, it shows such a harsh and barbaric engineering that knows no rule at all. Because I don't know anything about this Bali case.

Do you still have a wish to visit Australia? If not, why?

A: Yes, of course, I still want to visit Australia on condition that the purpose is solely for preaching and invited to preach and that I am safe. But if the situation is still like it is right now, for sure, I will not leave Indonesia because I will be slandered by the Australian government who is the ally of the evil government of America.

What do you think about Imam Samudra, Mukhlas and Amrozi? Do you think God will always protect them?

A: They are all Moslems, all of them are. Hopefully Allah guard them. If they are really guilty, hopefully Allah will forgive them from their mistakes or punish them in accordance to their mistakes. This is my opinion. I don't know, their fate is in the hands of Allah. What clear is, they are Moslems and based on their own confession they committed such thing to fight injustice especially the American government's crime and injustice towards the Moslems in Indonesia.

Is there anything you want to convey to Australia, to the Moslems and non-Moslems A: My message to my Moslem brothers in Australia, keep active in spreading Islam, preaching Islam peacefully in Australia in accordance to Allah's guidance. That is by being wise and giving good advice and invite them to have discussions in good manner, discussions that suit their way. Don't force them to convert to Islam. Give them time to think until they really understand Islam well so that they will convert to Islam in a good way. So that they convert to Islam because they believe it, because of the truth and not because of being forced. You have to know that Moslems are prohibited to softly and strongly force infidels to convert to Islam. This is my message to my Moslem brothers in Australia. My message to God's servants who are still infidels, who haven't converted to Islam, please study Islam and try to cultivate Islam so that you are safe.

By Abu Bakar Bashir December 13 2002

SKIPPY: Has anybody seen GI Joe? Or do you know where he's Bin? He spent some time at Justice Action trying to flog GI cordial but we told him to piss off.


GI Strikes again! Plots plots and more plots
Gi's foiled plot to bomb foreign embassies in Singapore, including the Australian high commission, would have to use high sugar levels at the controls of cordial laden truck, a US interrogation of a key GI figure has revealed.

Alarm over terror in 'Australia'?
All of the families ASIO raided in October were believed to have attended the weekend camps, which have run for the past five years. GI cordial was on the refreshment list of drinks.

Special powers? Or political grandstanding?
In NSW, great slews of legislation over the past year have increased powers for everything from police to sniffer pups and train guards and vastly reduced the rights of individuals to engage in civil disobedience, freedom of expression and communication with each other.

First strike and you're out!
The ideology of a super loser? John Howard shocks the nation again. A nation who cannot believe Howard's stupidity following his [complicity in the CIA's false flag operation, the Bali bombing.]

UN charter doesn't reflect new self-defence needs: Hill?
The Defence [War] Minister, Robert Hill, says the United Nations' charter needs to be changed to help countries defend themselves against potential threats. [?] [Pre-emptive strikes on soveriegn nation states like Iraq and Afghanistan?]

Middle Eastern: Specific Legislation
"If there is a target person the police would have powers in relation to that type of person," Mr Costa said. Asked what he meant by "type of person", Mr Costa said: "The example that's been given is if there's a description of somebody, an identikit photograph released by Interpol or other agencies ... these powers may well be exercised on that type of person."

Suspicious police are not trusted to terrorise the community
Short memory my friends when just around the corner police were out of control and now you want to trust Police in NSW to be given extraordinary powers to search vehicles, sites and even a general "type of person" in the event of a terrorism threat or after a terrorist attack.

Howard defends terror alert
Prime Minister John Howard says the Federal Government would not have issued a terror alert if it had not come from a credible source. (America?) Speaking for the first time since the Government revealed the warning, Mr Howard says he wants people to be more careful, but not to stop living. [As long as they don't go dancing in Bali? And sure we'll all be depressed for as long as John Howard and Bob Carr say so.]

Carr backs Fed Govt's terror alert
New South Wales Premier Bob Carr has defended the Federal Government's decision to issue a warning to Australians about a possible terrorist attack in Australia.

NSW Police Force may get 'special powers'
Civil libertarians are questioning the need for further anti-terrorism laws, which will be announced in the New South Wales Parliament on Tuesday.

When Johnny comes marching home again: 'hoorah hoorah'
Posted on the Resistance web page Bronwyn Powell, an organiser of the youth-led mobilisation told Green Left weekly that "in the face of attacks on civil liberties, it is unfortunate that some union officials have felt they need to submit. It could set a negative precedent for upholding the hard-won right to demonstrate in the street."

Police show their real colours 'blue'
Several thousand people have marched through the centre of Sydney protesting against globalisation and the treatment of asylum seekers. Police provided the protesters with an escort despite refusing to issue permits for demonstrations.

Give peace a chance
PIERS AKERMAN DT 28 Nov 02: JUSTICE John Dowd should be removed from the bench. His crime? Stupidity. In a breath-taking display of hand-wringing sanctimonious morality, Dowd has condemned the State and Federal Governments' anti-terrorism measures, claiming they erode rights and give encouragement to oppressive regimes.

Bills, Bills and more Bills NSW Parliament deep in debt
NSW Parliament is unjustifiable creating intellectual debt, Academics, politicians, judges, lawyers and volunteers.

It is an absolute disgrace to: Undermine civil and democratic rights The event, hosted by a State MP Lee Rhiannon just a week before the meeting of the World Trade Organisation in Sydney, has enraged Police Minister Michael Costa, who said using the House for the event was appalling. Upper House Greens MP Lee Rhiannon is hosting the forum for about 60 people in State Parliament's Jubilee Room on November 8.

The scavengers of terror
The NSW Government is to introduce increased police powers bill. Legislation giving New South Wales police special powers to deal with an emergency terrorist situation [emergency scapegoat situation] will be introduced into the New South Wales Parliament today.

Greens more of a human touch
What is a real job? Writes Political Reporter Malcolm Farr Daily Tele Article 11 Nov 2002. "It would start if candidates had a CV of real jobs, such as medicine (Senator Brown), or even zoo keeping (NSW Upper House Green Lee Rhiannon ). Which leaves the type of candidate summed up by Kerry Nettle, who was elected a NSW senator at the poll a year ago.

Koch's Skoff Channel 7' Sunrise
Charming when you run some one down like Zanny Begg member of the National Executive of Resistance using the power of National Media and the presenter is opinionated to go along with it.

The Australian Flag - Burn baby burn
If John Howard is not constitutional and racist. If our obligations to human rights are not being upheld, then burn baby burn the Australian flag in protest and start it with little Lucifer like a picture of Bob Carr.

About Protesting &: Corporate media, Ben English and Rachel Morris who spell their names in capitals? [Yes too right! Ordinary people some protesting against the occupation, murder and genocide of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children. And you call yourselves reporters? You should hang your head in shame and go get jobs defending those poor innocent people. Shame on you!!!]