Showing posts with label genes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label genes. Show all posts

Thursday, October 27, 2005

Schizophrenia: Think again!

New research on schizophrenia suggests that the drugs won't always work

The psychiatric establishment is about to experience an earthquake that will shake its intellectual foundations. When it has absorbed the juddering contents of the latest edition of one of its leading journals, Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica, it will have to rethink many of its most cherished assumptions.

Not since the publication of RD Laing's book Sanity, Madness and the Family, in 1964, has there been such a significant challenge to their contention that genes are the main cause of schizophrenia and that drugs should be the automatic treatment of choice.

With his colleagues, guest editor John Read (whose name I shall use as a generic term for this body of evidence), a leading New Zealand psychologist, slays these sacred biological cows. The fact that some two-thirds of people diagnosed as schizophrenic have suffered physical or sexual abuse is shown to be a major, if not the major, cause of the illness. Proving the connection between the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder and schizophrenia, Read shows that many schizophrenic symptoms are directly caused by trauma.

Before proceeding any further with Read's evidence, two important caveats must be entered. Firstly, many parents of offspring with the illness may find what follows deeply upsetting or infuriating. But this is not about blame, and it is not being suggested that all cases are caused by parental care. It is also important to realise that the new evidence is far more optimistic in its implications than the psychiatric establishment's view, for patients, parents and carers alike. Secondly, it is important to stress that plenty of psychiatrists do not subscribe to all the tenets of the establishment view. I recognise that many are working in good faith with an incredibly testing patient population, and do a tremendous amount to help them.

The cornerstone of Read's tectonic plate-shifting evidence is the 40 studies that reveal childhood or adulthood sexual or physical abuse in the history of the majority of psychiatric patients (see, also, Read's book, Models of Madness).

A review of 13 studies of schizophrenics found rates varying from 51% at the lowest to 97% at the highest. Crucially, psychiatric patients or schizophrenics who report abuse are much more likely to experience hallucinations. The content of these often relate directly to the trauma suffered. At their simplest, they involve flashbacks to abusive events which have become generalised to the whole of their experience.

For example, an incest survivor believed that her body was covered with ejaculate. The visual hallucinations or voices often tyrannise and belittle the patients, just as their tormentors did in reality, creating a paranoid universe in which intimates cannot be trusted.

More research is needed to establish if abuse also heralds the other key symptoms of the illness, for example, incoherent, confusing or downright weird language. Studies already show that this is much more likely if the subject of conversation is emotionally charged. When asked to talk about sad rather than happy memories, speech becomes measurably more disordered, increasingly so the more personal the subject matter. We need research to investigate if verbal incoherence is abuse-related.

Another symptom is dissociation (feeling disconnected from oneself and surroundings). This has been shown many times over to be more common in the abused. It remains to be seen if catatonia (complete withdrawal from the world) is so related, although it seems extremely likely that it will be because elements of this are often found in victims of trauma. The same may be true of depressive thoughts, which many schizophrenics suffer and which are rife in the abused. About 15% of schizophrenics die by suicide, and depression is the norm in the suicidal. Suicide attempts are more common among people who have been abused as children, suggesting an abuse-schizophrenia connection, via depression and suicide.

Among the sexually abused there is a greater risk of developing schizophrenia the earlier the abuse happened, the closer the relation to the abuser and the more invasive the acts. Of course, not all schizophrenics suffered trauma and not all abused people develop the illness. What makes the difference?

Apart from the possible role of genes, less overtly cruel early childhood maltreatment, other than actual abuse, may be important. In a review of the 33,648 studies conducted into the causes of schizophrenia between 1961 and 2000, Read found that less than 1% was spent on examining the impact of parental care. What is more, the amounts have decreased steadily, from 1.6% during the 1960s, to four times less than that during the 1990s. Despite this, enough studies have been done to suggest negative or confusing early care may be an important addition to abuse as a cause.

Since mothers spend far more time caring for children than fathers (who account for much of the abuse), their role may be critical in this regard. There is now a vast body of evidence that early infantile deprivation and erratic or unresponsive care as a toddler make adults more vulnerable to depression and personality disorder (a close diagnostic relative to schizophrenia. See my book They F*** You Up - How to Survive Family Life).

It is very possible that maternal deprivation creates a vulnerability to schizophrenia if there is subsequent abuse. Children with schizophrenic mothers are twice as likely to develop the illness as those with an afflicted father. This could be because disturbing mothers are a major factor. Equally, it could be due to gender-linked genetic inheritance, but there are strong reasons to doubt it.

For instance, the mothers of 11,000 Finns were asked if they had considered an abortion for their child during pregnancy, a clear sign that the child was unwanted, increasing the likelihood of subsequent maternal deprivation. Followed up 28 years later, the offspring of mothers who had sought abortions were four times more likely to be schizophrenic - not likely to be anything to do with genes.

Parents' negativity and tendency to be mystifying - paradoxical, contradictory injunctions - may also be important. These were measured in families with problem boys who had not yet developed signs of schizophrenia. After 15 years, the more negative and mystifying the parents had been in a son's childhood, the greater his likelihood of being schizophrenic or of having symptoms.

Of course, that does not rule out the possibility that genes may play a significant role in plenty of schizophrenia, but, even in these cases, the only recent study of the role of early environment shows how important it is. Fifty-six children born to schizophrenic mothers who had subsequently been adopted at a young age and who were therefore, in theory, put at higher genetic risk of developing the illness, were compared with 96 adoptees who were at low risk because none of their biological parents had it. The families were observed extensively when the children were small and all the adoptees were assessed for psychiatric illness in adulthood.

On its own, simply having a greater genetic risk (because of schizophrenia in the biological mother) did not increase the likelihood that the child would develop schizophrenic symptoms. Genes alone did not cause the illness. However, if there was a high genetic risk and it was combined with mystifying care during upbringing, the likelihood was greater. This suggests that genes can be implicated, but only if the family environment is of the kind that fulfills schizophrenic genetic potential.

What, then, is the main case for genes playing a role? A recent review by Robert Plomin, the world authority on genetic causes of human behaviour, revealed that, apart from for Alzheimer's, not a single gene has been shown to play a critical role in any mental illness. There is no evidence that the genetic material of schizophrenics differs in any way from people without the illness.

For the time being, this places the burden of genetic proof on studies of identical twins and adoptees. Putting to one side the fact that there are serious doubts over the validity of twin studies as a method (see Jay Joseph's The Gene Illusion), suppose 100 schizophrenics all had genetically identical siblings. Studies show that half of the identikits will also have the illness. What explains its absence in the other half? Because both have exactly the same genes, the one thing of which we can be certain is that differences in genes are not the reason. It proves beyond peradventure that environment plays an important role in causing some schizophrenia.

More general evidence of the crucial role of environment comes from sociological studies. Schizophrenia is around 12 times more common in children of West Indian immigrants to Britain. Increased rates have been found for immigrants to other countries. Poor people are several times more likely than the rich to suffer schizophrenia, and urban life increases the risk.

Rates of schizophrenia vary as much as 16-fold around the world, as does its course. It is less common in developing nations and tends to last much longer and be more severe in rich, industrialised nations compared with poor, developing ones (even so, about 20% of schizophrenics in developed nations recover completely without taking anti-psychotic drugs). In fact, if you become ill in a developing nation where hardly anyone is treated with drugs, you are 10 times less likely to have any recurrence of the illness - a huge difference, also nothing to do with genes.

What it may have a lot to do with is the administration of drugs (see British psychologist Richard Bentall's book, Madness Explained). They have been shown to impede traumatised people from understanding their voices or visions and recovering from them. There is a close relationship between the drug companies and the psychiatric establishment. While it may not be the intention, the establishment explanation of the causes of and solutions to schizophrenia are crucial components in the process of selling drugs. If patients can be persuaded their illness is an unchangeable genetic destiny and that it is a physical problem requiring a physical solution, drug companies' profits will grow. Read shows those who buy this genetic fairytale are less likely to recover, and that parents who do so are less supportive of their offspring.

The huge importance to drug company profits of the bio-genetic refrain becomes apparent when you learn that most people do not hum along with it. Surveys find that the majority of people mention such environmental factors as trauma, stress and economic hardship as the commonest causes of schizophrenia. It may be seen that the drug companies have an uphill struggle to persuade them otherwise, for which they badly need the help of the psychiatric establishment's towrope. In Read's analysis, letting go of that rope will prevent it strangling the many schizophrenics whose illness has been caused by abuse. Genes may still emerge as a major cause of vulnerability to schizophrenia, as may problems during pregnancy. There is already no question that illicit hallucinogenic drugs are a major reason some vulnerable people become ill. But even if this is true, following Read's important work, it will be hard to ignore its implications.

All patients will need to be asked in detail about whether they have been abused. Anti-psychotic drugs will no longer be doled out automatically, psychological therapies will be employed much more frequently. The psychiatric establishment will have to spend more research money on investigating the role of nurture in causing the illness. Above all, as advisers to government, it will have to recommend much better systems for early detection of traumatised individuals and the funds to provide the kind of support for parents that could prevent much, if not most, schizophrenia.

There are already signs of a change in perspective. In August, the president of the American Psychiatric Association bemoaned his profession's subservience to drug companies and the fact that "we have allowed the bio-psycho-social model to become the bio-bio-bio model". As Read reports in his earth-shattering edition of Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica, for too long the role of trauma has been ignored by the establishment and "the possibility of a relationship with psychosis has been minimised, denied or ignored". Read's earthquake may trigger a landslide.

By Oliver James posted 27 October 05

* Oliver James trained and worked as a clinical psychologist. He is the author of They F*** You Up - How to Survive Family Life.

Related:

Mental Treatment and Pharmacy Profit $$$$$
Mentally ill patients are being kept in solitary confinement within maximum security NSW prisons as punishment, against the most basic principles of human rights law.

Drugs firms 'creating ills for every pill'
The power of Britain's multi-billion-pound drugs industry has turned this country into an over-medicalised society that believes in a pill for every ill, a Commons inquiry will claim this week.

Family Wonders if Prozac Prompted School Shootings
US: RED LAKE, Minn., March 25 - In their sleepless search for answers, the family of Jeff Weise, the teenager who killed nine people and then himself, says it is left wondering about the drugs he was prescribed for his waves of depression.

Mother's Little Helpers
Approved for adults only, Prozac is being used to medicate children as young as 8 years old. Why are we using powerful drugs to raise our daughters?

Big Pharma snared by net
UK The web has helped consumers turn tables on the drug giants, says Cheryll Barron.

Prozac must have suicide warning
All antidepressant drugs must carry the strongest possible public warning that they could cause children to harm themselves or commit suicide, US authorities said yesterday in a landmark ruling which has repercussions for the whole class of drugs.

The drugs industry and its watchdog: a relationship too close for comfort? Critics say the drug regulator and the industry are too close. Their proceedings have long been shrouded in secrecy because of the drug companies' insistence on the commercial sensitivity of information relating to their products.

Schizophrenia: talking may help when drugs don't
New research has strengthened the case for using 'talk therapy' in the treatment of schizophrenia, especially for those who don't respond well to drugs.

Monday, November 10, 2003

Fear-mongering over convicts sperm bank donations

Is there a terrorist in your womb? Can your parent's genes label you? Not according to the Danish Health Ministry that said donors did not require a clean record as "there is no evidence that a tendency towards criminal behaviour can be inherited".

But the world's biggest sperm bank says that it has been forced to start screening all donors for any criminal record after it emerged that a man who killed his two baby daughters had been on its books.

[After someone decided to fear-monger the sperm bank?]

Horrified parents, who gave birth after receiving semen from the Cryos International Sperm Bank in Aarhus, Denmark, have flooded it with calls seeking reassurance that Heine Nielsen was not the father of their child. Nielsen, 32, who received $A54 a time to give samples, was sentenced to life in a secure psychiatric unit last week for the murder of his three-week-old daughter in January. A check on his criminal record would have revealed that he had been found guilty 10 years ago of murdering his first child, an eight-week-old girl. He served six years in prison for the killing.

Cryos has told anxious parents that none of the samples provided by Nielsen had been sent out, as he failed to attend the second of three compulsory psychological profiles. It has denied claims by Nielsen's relatives that he donated sperm twice a week for at least a year.

The head consultant at Cryos, Erich Ernst, said: "He provided only 12 samples, according to our records, but none of these was used because he did not complete the testing process. Only about 9 per cent of the applicants ever make it to the final stages, so this is quite normal." Nonetheless, future Cryos donors will be required to provide a police certificate confirming they do not have criminal records.

"We have contacted the Danish Health Ministry and have heard that it is within the law to ask our donors about any possible criminal convictions," Mr Ernst said. "We can insist someone has a clean record before we allow them to apply." The sperm bank has more than 200 donors on its books, distributing almost 10,000 units of sperm each year.

It supplies 35 infertility clinics across Europe, resulting in more than 1000 pregnancies every year.

The furore, [fear-mongering?] has [allegedly], prompted a fresh debate about whether laws should be introduced requiring would-be donors to face criminal checks as well as psychological tests and medical screening. But more importantly, laws for restricting the release of psychiatric patients convicted offenders or alleged terrorists.

[What! Nothing about state government terrorists? Murderers in the Military, Police, and prison guards, etc...What makes their Noble Cause Genes arses any better? Fear-mongering!!!]

Nielsen's mother, who has not been named, said he enrolled as a sperm donor to earn extra money.

"He was at the sperm bank several times every week . . . in 2000. I did not like it - he was sick, mentally sick, and it did not seem right," she said.

THE WAR ON LIBERTY: This is an extreme case of fear-mongering. Extreme cases are used to attempt to validate these models. In this case to start screening all donors for any criminal record. But if you can have people believe that the offenders and or terrorists are being produced or likely to be produced, because of a DNA test then there is a chance you won't be born. If you are born with these results and labelled an offender or terrorist you may be born into a prison hospital to prepare yourself for a prison cell. This has incredible wide ranging ramifications.

And the problem with that formula is that state sanctioned terrorists in the military, police, and prisons who murder for queen and country, an alleged noble cause, are no better than any other peasant criminals.

The Danish predators along side the Coalition of the Killing who are pre-emptively striking Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, are actually the worst kind of terrorists killing millions of people in the name of occupation, genocide and imperialism.

The reason they've take an extreme case like a baby killer here, is because usually there is little or no support for people who have offended against a child i.e. the most unpopular person. So fear-mongering works best if the provocateur uses the worst case scenario.

What about the Coalition of the Killing, war criminals and war mongers who maimed and killed these kids? Should they be more suitable for the sperm bank?


A STRUGGLE ON TWO FRONTS: PRISONS & IMPERIALIST WAR

After a war waged by the U.S. military against Vietnam which took the lives of more than 3 million Vietnamese people and more than 58,000 GIs, the U.S. finally withdrew in 1975. It had suffered its first official major military defeat by a united people struggle led by the Vietnamese, along with a mass U.S. anti-war movement.

By Extremely Flawed 10 November 03


Feedback: Michael Strutt: IMHO sperm banks are commercial institutions with a primary responsibility to their clients. If the client does not want sperm from someone, who has killed their kid, has a low paid job, dislikes brussel sprouts or supports Manchester United that is their business.

Sperm banks already discriminate against donors for lots of reasons, many of them with no good basis in genetic science (or any other science for that matter).


The whole issue of sperm banks, egg donors and eugenics is a big one, but IMHO, ultimately trivial. I'm sure not going to fight for anyone's right to jerk off into a bottle and get paid for it.


The real issue here is the question of a genetic basis for criminal behaviour. Because the science involved is so bad as to be non-existent in this case. I think it will really serve to discredit such a link, but there are far more serious challenges in this area to face.


The most serious one I know of so far is the Dunedin study which has shown a statistical correlation between a polymorphism of the MAO gene and violent behaviour by men who were abused as children.
Note that there is both a genetic and environmental factor in the mix.

This study is being carefully examined by many scientists in the field and I expect to see some responsible conclusions drawn which will then be hijacked by politicians and other publicity seekers with their own irresponsible agendas.


Interestingly, I expect the Dunedin study - in conjunction with what is now being revealed about the
violent side effects of antidepressant medication - to force a general rethink about the relationship between anger and depression which may even help society to deal more sympathetically with those people unable to control violent impulses.

The MAO gene codes for the protein monoamine oxidase, which has long been known to be linked to depression. There are also studies, which attempt to correlate particular genetic variations with opiate addiction and alcoholism.


I think that the whole issue needs to be seen in the context of bioinformatics (the use of powerful computers and huge databases to try to draw statistical links between apparently unrelated pieces of biomedical data) and
the attempts by drug companies and cowboy research entrepreneurs (like Craig Venter) to 'discover the gene responsible for' whatever.

The reductionist nature of contemporary medical science makes that approach very persuasive to allopathic practitioners, the general public, media outlets and (most importantly for its proponents)
stock market investors. It creates a real danger of genetic discrimination and a new wave of eugenics as predicted in 'Brave New World' and 'Gattaca'.

I am not sanguine about such a danger by any means, but have reason to think that all the hype being currently being generated by the biotechs will ultimately lead to a backlash, which will mitigate against such an outcome.


The 'miracle gene cures' being anticipated in the media on almost a daily basis will generally not pan out - they are just about creating enough short term enthusiasm to cash in on the stock market, not the long haul needed for proper medical research and development of therapy.


After a few more years of this
the public and media will become pretty sceptical I think. In the meantime however, there is real risk of discrimination in insurance; HealthCare, employment and the criminal justice system based on bogus or irrelevant links between genes and illness or antisocial behaviour.

The Australian Law Reform Commission has demonstrated itself as worse than useless in addressing the problem, as it is unable to stand up to even the mildest pressure from industry or authorities.


Related:


A Question of Innocence
Minister Chris Ellison: Yes we’re watching the progress of this project in NSW with great interest. This has been raised at the Standing Committee of Attorneys General and a working group is looking at this very question. I think we have to have a considered response to this proposal and on a national basis, we would need to have the cooperation of the states and territories.

Military lawyers await probe on DNA tampering
The Army's Criminal Investigation Command said nearly 500 forensic test results from all services dating back 10 years are under review after one of its examiners allegedly faked results. About 119 of those cases pertain to the Navy and Marine Corps.

Corrupt police planting DNA evidence at crime scenes
Others have raised concerns about corrupt police planting DNA evidence at crime scenes.

Expert baffled by Falconio evidence DNA contamination
NT: The director of the Northern Territory's forensic science unit has told a Darwin court he does not know how his DNA contaminated a key piece of evidence in the Peter Falconio murder trial. [lost trial? After all he wasn't found?]

The ABC for good or evil?
He had a suspect that he wanted to find guilty based on the chances of a spouse killing a spouse which were greater in anycase, at least more likely than that of a stranger.

First Grabs To Control Our DNA
A small company in Australia has been subjected to gross denials of rights after DNA database technology was stolen from it's company. This one year saga has spawned them to form a new approach to projects of importance to all people.

Worries over DNA and racial profiling
UK: Black men are four times more likely than White men to be on the national DNA database and there is growing concern about racial profiling in criminal investigations.

Lab's Errors Force Review of 150 Virginia DNA Cases
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Witch-hunt targets scientists
QLD: SCIENTISTS at the John Tonge Centre are being threatened with jail in the wake of a government hunt for the source of leaks highlighting serious problems in the forensic laboratories.

Fresh swipe at DNA labs
Scientist Kris Bentley, whose departure yesterday follows that of forensic biologist Deanna Belzer after concerns about "inaccurate" DNA results and unvalidated equipment, issued a scathing resignation letter leaked to The Courier-Mail.

DNA leads 'CSI' cold-case squad to first arrest?
Frozen case? I don't really know what to say about them until they come up with their case. They say it involves DNA evidence but that's the only stuff we know.

Criminal's DNA filed under relative's name
The New South Wales Opposition is calling for an investigation into claims that police have entered DNA data for serious offenders under incorrect names.

DNA fingerprinting 'no longer foolproof'...
The genetic profiles held by police for criminal investigations are not sophisticated enough to prevent false identifications, according to the father of DNA fingerprinting.

THE BUTLER DIDN'T DO IT!
PROFESSOR BARRY BOETTCHER: Now, there should be a law enacted within Queensland so that when cases come up like this they can be brought to attention and if an appropriate authority such as a judge of your Supreme Court considers that it merits further inquiry, an inquiry be ordered.

'Rape' officer clears his name
UK: A former policeman has been cleared of rape after protesting his innocence for 15 years. Judges at the Court of Criminal Appeal in Edinburgh ruled that Brian Kelly, 47, had suffered a miscarriage of justice over crucial DNA evidence.

New unit investigates unsolved deaths?
A new police unit has been established to investigate more than 360 unsolved deaths in New South Wales, with many of the deaths dating back more than 30 years.

Prisoner's bid for review denied
Prisoner Roger Cheney has lost a Supreme Court action to have a judicial review of his 1993 convictions an 30-year jail sentence. Justice Shaw said he was concerned about the prisoner's claim that DNA evidence held by the police could prove his innocence. Although Cheney had requested the results of the DNA tests, he had been denied access to the forensic analysis.

QLD Prisoners DNA Bid THE curious case of Queensland's "cat lady" murder is set to test the state's legal authorities again, with the man convicted of the killing asking the Attorney-General to take the unprecedented step of releasing blood samples for DNA retesting.

Database clears up crimes?
NSW Police Minister John Watkins said at the launch of a Sydney conference of international forensic experts meeting to mark 100 years of fingerprinting in NSW. He said the collection of DNA from prisoners and suspects in NSW during the past two years had led to more than 5,400 matches on the forensic database.

A Question of Innocence
Katrina Bolton: The promise of DNA freeing the innocent as well as convicting the guilty has been repeated by politicians across Australia, usually while DNA laws are being expanded. The promise was made as a national DNA database, ‘Crimtrac’ was created, and it was made as NSW introduced legislation giving unprecedented powers to take DNA samples from prisoners, by force if necessary.

Mouse Trap Game? Tried Until Guilty!
Two New South Wales Labor MPs have strongly criticised the Carr Government's proposed abolition of the 800 year old double jeopardy rule, which stops people being tried a second time for the same crime. The left-wing MPs have branded the reforms as dishonest and unjust in a formal submission to the Attorney-General's department.

Weak Carr Government suspends Innocence Panel
It's a callous disregard for justice! The panel takes applications from convicted prisoners for DNA evidence to be analysed a move that may help in a future court appeal.

JUST BEAT IT! Govt lauds crime-solving technology?
The New South Wales Government says advances in crime solving technology are helping the progress of hundreds of police investigations.

DNA testing causes debate in murder case
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Abolition of double jeopardy law a political stunt: NSW Opp
Why draconian laws? What about the re-trial by media that goes along with it? Twice shy?

ARE YOU INNOCENT?
The NSW government has finally appointed somebody (Justice John Nader) to head up its Innocence Panel and has produced leaflets and forms for people convicted of serious crimes (eg murder) to apply for DNA testing if they believe it may help prove their innocence. You can get the info by phoning 1300 881 717 or writing to the panel at GPO Box 45 Sydney NSW 2001.

Is the Westminster System flawed?
Most people would say Lady Di got the boot and NSW has so much trouble getting the Innocence Panel moving. I said hey, what's going on!

Murder charge first for DNA data bank link, but not the same as solving the murder Mass DNA testing of prisoners has led to the first NSW case of a person being charged with a previously unsolved murder as a result of a controversial gene-matching data bank. The Herald reported 25 Nov 02 "a DNA saliva swab led to the charging of a former prisoner with the bashing murder of a woman. Police had been unable to find any witnesses or suspects following the murder in Sydney's inner city two years ago. Detectives had admitted they faced a tough job finding the killer."

Prisoners can prove innocence for $20
Les Kennedy Daily Telegraph reported today that" Prisoners who believe that DNA will prove they were wrongly convicted will have the chance to prove their innocence for a mere $20 administration fee. The move comes 20 months after NSW inmates were asked to provide DNA for comparison with a databank of DNA from unsolved crime scenes for possible convictions.

DNA yours or mine?
Now they have isolated two genes that they say tells you if you're more likely to be depressed. What does that mean? It could mean that you should stay in jail because you are more likely than not to continue your offending behaviour according to a Department of Corrective Services Forensic Psychiatrist.

DNA = Do Not Assume - DNA Controversies!
The national DNA database of all known offenders proposed by Prime Minister Tony Blair could mean that innocent people will be accused of crimes they did not commit.

DNA Evidence of Bipartisanship
Last week the U.S. Congress passed the Justice for All Act, which includes provisions of the Innocence Protection Act. As of this posting, the legislation has not yet been signed by President Bush. Attached is an analysis of the legislation prepared by the Justice Project.

Murder charge first for DNA data bank link, but not the same as solving the murder As long as the the prisoners DNA wasn't planted at the crime scene. It is one thing to force prisoners to hand over their DNA and another thing to exploit it.